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Thoughts on MUDs, etc.

 
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arkainus



Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Thoughts on MUDs, etc. Reply with quote

Hey all,

Long time player from DoT 1.1/1.5 days, and was part of the original immortal team from Darkening Sun (Kyron to be exact). I've been thinking of the past a lot for whatever reason, and was wondering how any of you find MUDding in general, and the Dawn of Time codebase in particular to this day? A long time ago, I thought to create my own MUD from the ground up, but I'm sure many of you are aware of the dedication involved in creating a MUD, and the amount of work involved, long story short me and my friends never really finished. I still have the source code and areas we created, and we did a number of revisions to bring Dawn of Time much closer to WOTC's Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 ruleset.

I miss the MUD community. I don't want to go all "elitist" on anyone but for me the golden age of MUD's was DoT 1.1. Was the balance perfect? No. Were some of the skill set choices just bizarre? Sure. But it was fun. It worked. And the IMM staff was AWESOME. Quoxy, Kal, Kerenos, Imi and many more really made it fun for the players. Not only was the IMM staff great, but the player base made it fun for the player base. After like level 86 or so, getting xp from fighting was pretty much bupkis unless you were willing/could duke it out with the slime king or a few other super powerful mobs, so RP was a must to reach hero. Players like Rokaz, Ceasar, Storm, Jenova, Wanderer, Omni, Lunitari, Raistlin, Tifa, Paric, Herald, Ylerin, Kanegoro, Lucifuge, Tiranoc, Jackfrost, and so many others. With an average player count of 25 on at any given time of the day, I'm sure you can appreciate that SOMETHING was always going on somewhere. I mean these are characters from over 10 years ago and I can recall their names, so that should vouch for something. Even Aradon, a character I *HATED*, I can remember clearly, because the RP made me hate him. I digress, but maybe these last few rambling setences go to show just how much I miss the MUD community.

I visit the forums usually like twice a month and I see a real dearth of activity. I'm just curious, has the MUD finally gone the way of the dodo? Have graphics card finally surpassed the imagination? How many of you still have muds? How many of you still actively play muds? If you have a mud, what is your average # of players on at a given time? Finally, in your estimation, is it worth the time and effort involved to create another MUD?

I'm not here to start a flame war, so please understand my intentions. I just am curious to get the Dawn community's thoughts in particular.

Finally, though you may never read this Kal, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for doing all the work you did on this codebase. The sheer difference in this mud system from all the others I had played really stood out for me, and the time I spent "playing in your pool" was some of the best. MUD's were like a gateway drug for me into computers in general, networking and coding, and it is through them that I have a job today.

Thank you for your time.


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certordin



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I visit the forums usually like twice a month and I see a real dearth of activity. I'm just curious, has the MUD finally gone the way of the dodo? Have graphics card finally surpassed the imagination? How many of you still have muds? How many of you still actively play muds? If you have a mud, what is your average # of players on at a given time? Finally, in your estimation, is it worth the time and effort involved to create another MUD?


Arkainus,
Yeah the forums are pretty muchly so dead. I think the primary reason is that graphic games have stomped text games. People want to be fed visuals instead of using their minds anymore. I still occasionally play MUD1/British Legends. When it was on Compuserve, i rang up a bill like 5k+ making wizard there and then it died due to Y2K i think, and moved to the web. Well since it moved, everyone had to make wiz again and i just havent had that much time to play. Anyway, that shows you how good mud playing was back until say 1995 or so. Then it has steadily gone down hill. Today, DOT muds are more scarce than trs-80 computers. Heh i date myself with that comment. Anyway, BL has like 5 players on at once and thats on a good day. Usually its less. sigh. An finally, NO Its not worth creating a mud anymore. No matter how good the codebase, there are very few players that will visit. Now if your doing a graphics game with say adventure type stuff in it, that still is doable. I recommend the new UNITY3d engine. It just went free and is fantastic. Unfortunately, torquepowered's (garagegames) new torque2d engine just got put off till this time next year apparently from what i heard. So Unity3d is about the best engine to use for a 3d game that has great graphics and all. If you want to pay the money ($1K), you could try Torque3d from Torquepowered. Its great but it costs big bucks now.
Finally let me add that i think what has been the biggest determent to DOT being used besides the migration of players from text to Graphics, is that Kal hasnt released the beta code in OFFICIAL release format yet. Its been over 5 years since version R was released. That huge time lag is what has almost killed DOT i think. I realize kal is busy and has family but the time lag is what has put a big nail in DOTs ablity to be the premier mud codebase today. Sadly, with no idea when DOT vS will be officially released, we have moved on to graphic games and thats that.
Ps. See your Private Messages..
CertOrdin


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Daos



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 1224
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi -

Glad to see you are well Kyron. It has been awhile. Kal and I have had several discussions regarding this topic in the past and have drawn up two primary conclusions.

1. Commercial gaming tends to bring about a more solid draw simply because people seem to lack imagination. As technology has progressed over the last decade and a half, so has the level of apathy and laziness with most people. People prefer the convenience of having visual effect and being 'shown' what is going on rather than having to 'read' what is going on. It is pretty unfortunate because I have always felt MUDs were a gateway for people to improve their language skills and forms of communication.

2. Availability of MUD servers. With the broad availability of MUD servers, more and more and more MUDs will pop open and chop down the size of player bases. It is like that Disney show where Mickey takes the one large broom and chops it up repeatedly to many pieces until there are several small brooms. This is what happened. The closure of Dawn is a prime example. When Dawn closed, the main player base was split into three for the three new MUDs that were opening up. My MUD (DS), FTR (Zhaunil's MUD), and Blood Moon (Lark's MUD). Eventually, Stormbringer came forth and several other MUDs which continually created a divide. Now multiply that division of people by one thousand. This is why you see several MUDs with a player base size no greater than 10. I've wanted to unite several sites, but it has yet to happened.

The overall picture is that MUDs will always remain in existence; people will have a case of nostalgia and want to give it another run - no different than people of the NES generation caught in the world of Playstation 3 wanting to take a swan dive back in time to play a good ole round of 8-bit Final Fantasy or Super Mario Bros.

On a final note, yes there has been significantly less activity here on the forums. I am going to include myself in that bracket of people. I have recently been promoted by my insurance company to Divisional Manager, so I have a huge undertaking and responsibility to fulfill for the many families that depend on me to provide long term financial planning. It is one of the reasons why I am inevitably passing everything down to one of my admin. I simply lack the time to do what is necessary. I'm not speaking for Kal, but his primary focus is probably like mine...elsewhere right now.

One thing I feel is long overdue is probably a reunion of people. If there is a powerful level of sincerity, I would love to see everyone come back into the swing of things and maybe we all can collectively do something together. As one of the greatest presidents in American history stated, "United we stand, Divided we fall".

Cheers!



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http://www.dawnoftime.org
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arkainus



Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Daos! Glad to see you (and DS) are doing well. I thought of logging in just to take a look around, but I thought that, perhaps, logging in as my imm would be an unwelcome event. Shocked

As to your points:

1. I would tend to agree with you regarding commercial gaming and graphical representation. I can't say I don't understand it. I've seen some of the most recent games on X-box 360, PS3, PC and been floored by modern day graphics, but I also long ago found a love of reading and embraced my imagination.

2. I can't speak to Blood Moon as I never tried it, but I did play FTR and obviously DS. Jeeze, Zhaunil I forgot about that name. Whatever happened with him? I remember he disappeared from his own MUD after a while right? Or am I misremembering...

I think the splintering of the pbases was inevitable. Different players value different things. Plus personal relationships always play a part in where you choose to play. If I remember correctly Zhaunil was an imm on 1.5 (name eludes my memory atm) who was also Kanegoro from 1.1. That's a lot of history to draw from with regards to contacts and players. How many active players are left on DoT MUDs? I was googling shortly before my first post and the main result I got, excepting DS, was a MUD that centered mostly on netsex and erotic rp.

I think you may be right in that MUD's will always be around. I just wish there was more than a passive interest in the medium. I myself would be willing to dedicate myself to coding and adding features to a MUD, but I feel that aside from the practice, it would be for naught.

Believe me I didn't bring up the lack of activity on the forums to call anyone out and definitely not that I'm entitled to anything. I too know the changes life can take and growing responsibility. I was thinking that perhaps the lack of activity was due to a lack of MUDs starting up and everyone kind of "kept to their own" with regards to development, except the occasional question here or there. I just wanted to gauge MUD interest having been out of the scene for so long.

A reunion would be cool, something I could get behind. A collective project might be pretty fun, if for nothing else than to see where it goes. Congratulations on the promotion btw.


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Daos



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 1224
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kyron -

Feel free to drop me a private message. If your pfile on DS is still active, feel free to log it in and we can chat there, if not - let me know. I definitely wouldn't mind having a coder than can take on some projects. Cheers.



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